Home · News · FAQ · Forums · Privacy Policy · Members List · Contact June 22 2018 15:44:56
Login

Username

Password


Not a member yet?
Click here to register.

Forgotten your password?
Request a new one here.
Games
Manic Miner
Blagger
Jet Set Willy
Crossroads II
The Brick Maze
Escape From ASCII Castle
Third-party showcase
Mountain Party
The Pyramid Maze
Many more...
Other things
Hangman
Delphi Tips/Tutorials
Word Search Generator
Last Seen Users
whammydiver07:54:55
tophambeauclerc17:14:28
libteen18:49:27
kelltaire23:23:43
willy7 1 day
sebahtstian 1 day
discusb 1 day
gascoyne 3 days
andrewbroad 5 days
mickheaton 6 days
matt 1 week
Shoutbox
You must login to post a message.

libteen
17 June 2018
I need more lives on manic miner aaaarg

matt
09 June 2018
Hopefully it was just a temporary blip... Crossroads seems to be working now!

gascoyne
25 May 2018
Crossroads seems to have stopped working.

matt
20 November 2017
Having trouble playing the Java games? You'll probably need to use Internet Explorer - Firefox and Chrome no longer support Java. http://www.darnkitty.com/
java-help.php


megawolt
24 January 2017
Hi, guys! Nice to see you still playing here, it is hard to understand the kind of hobby)) but it is great

michael57
26 November 2016
CINDERELLA AIDAN

flakothedog
25 September 2016
Been a while (3 years). Good to see the all-time records are still going strong.

matt
14 May 2016
JAVA problems? Games won't load? Please go here: http://www.darnkitty.com/
java-help.php


xzavierg
05 April 2016
im the best the king of the brick maze

frankef
27 September 2015
hello

megawolt
11 August 2015
Back to second division battles))

gascoyne
21 March 2015
Back from hols & I see the top of the table battle has been hotting up....work to do!

slimboats
20 March 2015
That manic miners quite a cool game, its good fun!

jetsetdanny
16 March 2015
Thanks, discusb!

discusb
15 March 2015
Hats off to you sir.

Shoutbox Archive
View Thread
darnkitty.com Flash Games and Retro Remakes | Specific games | Forums for specific games
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 > >>
Author RE: Manic Miner
mitkey
Member

Posts: 5
Location:
Joined: 23.09.07
Posted on 23-12-2008 03:45
Oh, I see, that's where the TSP came from. I considered the number of items a constant (apparently I incorrectly assumed that the maximum was 5).

However, if looked at from a different standpoint, you realize that items can be dealt with in the same way as quicksand. I.e. you take your original graph and compute a Carthesian product of that graph with 10 bits, one for each item. So actually quicksand is much worse for the complexity.

Bottom line, the final problem would be O(n) in the number of states (the maximum degree of a vertex is constant -- six -- there are only 6 things to do with Willy), where n is the product of the following:

* Number of the positions in which Willy can be controlled ( max. 13x30x8x2, i.e. raster size times tile width times the direction Willy faces ).
* Number of steps after which all guardians get to their initial positions (maybe hundreds of steps?). max = total available time.
* 2^k, where k is the number of items (k <= 10)
* 9^q, where q is the number of quicksand tiles (8 states before disappearance + disappearance). q <= 13x30 (Ouch!)

Supposing you can run the simulation fast enough (maybe in native code as opposed to Flash), the only apparent problem is the number of quicksand tiles.
Then again, you are not going to explore the vast majority of those states, because they are either not going to be reachable, or the search will find the shortest path before you enter them. Nevertheless some heavy optimization would be probably needed in "The Vat" and "The Warehouse".

So much for the theory, I guess.

The implementation shouldn't be that difficult. Today's timer+keyboard+screen interface would have to be replaced with something allowing the user to
* Move Willy left, right, jump, left+jump, right+jump or do nothing. In case Willy cannot move (because of a jump/fall), simulate the game until he can).
* Query a state ID. For starters, the state ID could be simply a collection of strictly necessary information, i.e.:
** Willy's state (alive/dead/at finish)
** Willy's position (x=0..223, y=0..12) and facing (f={-1,+1})
** Elapsed time
** The status of taken items (a bit field)
** The status of quicksand (an array of numbers in the interval 0..8)
Author Problem: to compute the best possible score for a cavern
andrewbroad
Member



Posts: 71
Location: England
Joined: 24.11.05
Posted on 24-12-2008 01:13
1. When I said the maximum number of items in a cavern was 10, I forgot about Cavern 34, which has 15 items. That is the only exception.

2. I am less concerned about Crumbly cells (quicksand, as you call them) than about items, because there's no requirement to make them all crumble away before you complete a cavern (although it can be a fun additional challenge!). Of course Crumbly cells can add a whole new dimension to the complexity of a cavern if used intelligently (e.g. if you go the wrong way, you get rid of Crumbly cells that you need to cross later). But the bottom line is: without items, the problem reduces to finding the shortest path from A to B (polynomial complexity), but with items, it reduces to the Travelling Salesman problem (NP-complete).

3. The implementation is an unenviable task, because it needs to take into account all the quirky features of the game-engine. The only reliable approach would be to adapt the existing code into a function that takes a state and a move, and returns the resulting state, rather than running continuously and interacting with the keyboard. To do that for Spectrum MM would be a meaty challenge, and would involve emulating Z80 machine-code instructions. To do it for Flash MM, I wouldn't even know where to start, not having access to the source-code, or knowledge of how to decompile/disassemble/interpret the binary (the closest I've got was to download a 44K file called Manic.swf).

Edited by andrewbroad on 24-12-2008 01:16
andrewbroad
Author RE: Manic Miner
mitkey
Member

Posts: 5
Location:
Joined: 23.09.07
Posted on 24-12-2008 04:00
ad 3) Taking hold of the source isn't a problem - the source of Javascript MM (which this one was based on) is available on the web. The gameplay (i.e. the scoring) seems to be identical in the first Cavern. For the sake of efficiency it would be nicer to have a C version though.
Author RE: ANNOUNCE: JSW64: Flash Manic Miner
andrewbroad
Member



Posts: 71
Location: England
Joined: 24.11.05
Posted on 31-12-2008 06:37
I am delighted to announce the gamma-release of JSW64: Flash Manic Miner, which is available as a free download from http://geocities.com/andrewbroad/spectrum/download/

The game is a Spectrum conversion of the new caverns in Matthew Gordon's Flash Manic Miner.

JSW64: Flash Manic Miner starts in Cavern 21 ("Central Cavern II") and starts looping after Cavern 43 ("Killer Birds"), which is the last edited cavern in either version. So you have 23 rooms to play through, and 180 items to collect.

The game is based on John Elliott's JSW64 engine (Variant Z), which combines almost all the features of Matthew Smith's classic Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy. In particular, this game is based on John Elliott's conversion of Manic Miner to JSW64.

I chose JSW64 primarily because it supports having more than 5 items in a room (the Flash MM caverns have up to 15 items each), and also in order to simulate certain features of Flash MM not supported by the Spectrum MM/JSW game-engines (e.g. being able to fall onto a conveyor and walk the wrong way, guardians passing through 'inkful' Fire-cells, and vertical guardians needing to have their columns specified in pixels rather than characters).

JSW64: Flash Manic Miner comes with a bonus-game: Manic Miner: Matthew Smith 2008 Remix. This is a minor variant of Manic Miner inspired by the interview with Matthew Smith in Retro Gamer magazine (Load 48, February 2008). I have taken on board everything Matthew Smith said about doing things differently - within the limitations of the MM game-engine - and made numerous changes of my own, such as adding the unused cell-graphics, and forcing the player to do things that aren't enforced in the original.

2009 looks like being an exciting year for Broadsoft MM/JSW games, as:
(a) I'm much further ahead with my tennis-reports than I was with last year's tennis-reports a year ago, which should leave much more time free for MM/JSW in 2009 than in 2008.
(b) I plan to release v1.1 of JSW64 Manic Miner: James Bond, which adds "Quantum of Solace", and will come with an easy variant, edited music and full room-documentation. There's a beta-version in the Files section of the Manic Miner and Jet Set Willy Yahoo! Group if you can't wait to play "Quantum of Solace".
(c) I plan to start work on a new MM/JSW game, which is top secret for now!

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://geocities.com/andrewbroad/spectrum/willy/

Edited by andrewbroad on 31-12-2008 06:38
andrewbroad
Author RE: Manic Miner
wanley1
Member

Posts: 3
Location: northern ireland
Joined: 17.03.09
Posted on 28-03-2009 00:31
i am stuck on cavern 11. can anyone help me!!!


wanley1
Author Cavern 11
andrewbroad
Member



Posts: 71
Location: England
Joined: 24.11.05
Posted on 28-03-2009 02:32
Cavern 11 ("Attack of the Mutant Telephones")

1. Start by dropping down to the left of the magenta telephone.

2. Jump over the green horizontal guardian (HG) to take the item - without clipping the yellow HG overhead.

3. Take the leftmost item by jumping from the left-conveyor.

4. Jump back onto the left-conveyor, and walk right immediately until you're standing on the non-crumbling Water-cell above the red HG.

5. The easy way to get past the red HG is to wait until it goes to the left of you, drop down and walk right. The efficient way is to drop down immediately, and jump right over it between the two spiders overhead.

6. Take the bottom-right item.

7. Take the top-right item.

8. The easiest way to get past the yellow HG is to stand as close to the right wall as possible, jump left onto the yellow HG's platform, and immediately jump left over the yellow HG, taking the top item in that same jump. The efficient way (you have to be feeling very confident) is to jump onto that platform and take the item immediately, wait to the right of the top spider, and jump straight up over the yellow HG.

9. If you did all previous steps as efficiently as possible, you'll be able to jump over the magenta telephone immediately. If not, you'll need to wait as far over the left edge of the yellow HG's platform as you dare to stand, and jump straight up to avoid the yellow HG before you jump over the magenta telephone.

Edited by andrewbroad on 28-03-2009 02:45
andrewbroad
Author RE: Manic Miner Cavern Scores
rap75
Member

Posts: 1
Location:
Joined: 12.03.06
Posted on 30-07-2009 07:03
Difficult to get my head round all of that! But I've been wondering for a while what the best scores are progressing from cavern to cavern....
Without losing a life, I've got up to 1802 from the 1st, then 3772, 5658, 7523(I wonder if 7544 might be possible?), 9242, 11064.....

Anyone get higher?

rap75



andrewbroad wrote:
Another challenge in Manic Miner - besides the obvious one of going for the highest cavern you can reach - is trying to set the highest possible score for a cavern before losing your last life in that cavern.

I have set the perfect high scores for Caverns 1 to 10:
1500, 3302, 5251, 7137, 9002, 10720, 12543, 16787, 18089, 19807

Caverns 1 to 7 are simple, as they each have 5 items (100 points each), so you just have to get to your target-room as efficiently as possible, then commit suicide three times after taking all the items in that room.

Cavern 8 only has 4 items, so to set the perfect high for this cavern, you have to sacrifice two lives in earlier caverns.

You score 2500 for toppling the Kong Beast, but it doesn't count if you do it again, so to set perfect highs for Caverns 9 to 20, you have to sacrifice one life in Cavern 8, then pass it the next time without the time-penalty of toppling the Kong Beast (this doesn't help for Cavern 21 and beyond, as Cavern 21 has 10 items).

Cavern 9 only has one item, so to set the perfect high, you have to sacrifice one life before Cavern 8 and another in Cavern 8.

Caverns 10 to 13, 17 and 20 have 5 items each, so you don't have to sacrifice a life before Cavern 8.

Caverns 14 to 16 have 4, 3 and 4 items respectively, and Caverns 18 and 19 have 1 and 3 items respectively, so for these caverns, you have to sacrifice two lives beforehand: one in Cavern 8, and another in a room with 5 items.

There's also the matter of perfect entry-scores for each cavern, so you can tell if you're on par for a perfect high. For Caverns 2 to 7, these are...
1802, 3751, 5637, 7502, 9220, 11043
...and after Cavern 7, it depends on where you sacrifice your lives for your target-cavern.
Author RE: Manic Miner
diedrsch
Member

Posts: 2
Location:
Joined: 28.08.09
Posted on 01-09-2009 07:28
This game is wonderful, it made me return to 1984! Thank you very much for it!!!

Just a small suggestion: Is it possible to let the user select the keys?
I prefer to move <- -> with my left hand and to jump with my right hand,
and this keyboard layout makes it very uncomfortable.

Thank you very much,
Diederich
Author RE: Manic Miner
matt
Super Administrator



Posts: 112
Location: Mount Eden
Joined: 05.07.05
Posted on 02-09-2009 02:32
Hello diedrsch thanks very much for your suggestions,
If there is ever a future version of Manic Miner I'll be sure to include this - although this game hasn't been changed in over 4 years so I can't promise it will ever happen.
www.g2-tech.co.uk
Author RE: Manic Miner
diedrsch
Member

Posts: 2
Location:
Joined: 28.08.09
Posted on 02-09-2009 18:29
Hi, matt. Your answer is very kind and honest.
I have now reached level 18 (Amoebatron's Revenge) but it seems to be more difficult than I remembered. I am thinking that perhaps it is not a problem with the movement keys, the problem may be that I am 25 years older than in 1984.
Anyway, the game is wonderful! I am very happy to have found your site.

Thanks, diedrsch

Edited by diedrsch on 03-09-2009 04:13
Author RE: Amoebatrons' Revenge
andrewbroad
Member



Posts: 71
Location: England
Joined: 24.11.05
Posted on 03-09-2009 16:08
"Amoebatrons' Revenge" is more difficult than in the Spectrum-version because collision-detection for guardians is different. You can't curl up in one cell-column facing left to avoid the second HG from the top - you have to turn and face right.

Edited by andrewbroad on 03-09-2009 16:10
andrewbroad
Author RE: Manic Miner
mc_uhtoh
Member

Posts: 1
Location:
Joined: 27.08.09
Posted on 06-09-2009 22:53
Superb, congratulations!! During the last 2 weeks I have played (and successfully solved) 5 versions of Manic Miner: MS-DOS, Windows, Java, Javascript and finally this Flash version, a pretty nice challenge (only 3 lifes available). The new caverns seem interesting, but maybe it's time to stop for a while.

Diedrsch: You can move < > with the cursor keys (left hand) and jump with the right shift (right hand), rotating the keyboard clockwise so that you don't need to cross hands. Perhaps it helps you.

A very happy ex - spectrum user.
Author RE: ANNOUNCE: Andrew Broad's new website, JSW64: Flash Manic Miner reissued
andrewbroad
Member



Posts: 71
Location: England
Joined: 24.11.05
Posted on 27-10-2009 06:12
Now that GeoCities is supposed to have closed, I am delighted to announce my new website.

I have just reissued all my Spectrum-software - including JSW64: Flash Manic Miner, which is available for download at:
http://abroad.sqweebs.com/spectrum/software/flash_mm.html

By "reissued", I mean that the software itself is completely unchanged, but I have updated the documentation to refer to my new website. I have proofread and edited README.TXT.

--
Dr. Andrew Broad
http://abroad.sqweebs.com/

P.S. You may find that my new site is down from time to time, although Sqweebs claims that it is up approximately 99% of the time. When it does go down, it usually comes back up within a couple of minutes.
andrewbroad
Author RE: Manic Miner
deke123uk
Member

Posts: 1
Location:
Joined: 06.11.09
Posted on 06-11-2009 13:58
Hello Im new to the forum and an old friend of the Spectrum Manic Minor. on the old spectrum version I was able in input a code and had as many lives as I liked, I no this is cheating but hey I am a man after all, is this code not posible on this version?

Thanks
Derek
Author RE: Manic Miner
matt
Super Administrator



Posts: 112
Location: Mount Eden
Joined: 05.07.05
Posted on 07-11-2009 21:14
Sorry, not in this version :-)
www.g2-tech.co.uk
Author RE: Manic Miner
jongtfc
Member

Posts: 14
Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: 07.11.09
Posted on 09-11-2009 15:50
Am i remembering incorrectly, or in the original did you get an extra life passing a certain point? (I'm thinking every 10K)

Also, what happens when you pass level 20? Does it revert back to Central Cavern again?
Author RE: Manic Miner
matt
Super Administrator



Posts: 112
Location: Mount Eden
Joined: 05.07.05
Posted on 09-11-2009 16:39
In the original, you did indeed get an extra life every 10k. I didn't remember this until people started playing and logging high scores, and to be fair to the existing high scorers I decided not to change it.

If you want to see the caverns after number 20 and you don't have time to keep playing to get that far (I know I struggle to), and you have a Spectrum emulator, you can refer to Andrew Broad's post a few posts back at 30-12-2008 22:37 - he's written a Spectrum Version of the new caverns
www.g2-tech.co.uk
Author RE: Manic Miner
jongtfc
Member

Posts: 14
Location: Lincolnshire
Joined: 07.11.09
Posted on 09-11-2009 18:15
I may have to do that. I remember never ever EVER completing Solar Power Generator. Mind you, i was six.
Author RE: Manic Miner
flakothedog
Member

Posts: 12
Location:
Joined: 20.10.09
Posted on 11-11-2009 20:33
Caverns 21 onwards are ingenious. Thank you very much for this game.
http://www.tilepile.org
Author RE: Manic Miner
fruity
Member

Posts: 1
Location:
Joined: 21.11.09
Posted on 21-11-2009 03:04
Page 2 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 > >>

Current high scores    

  Manic Miner 
 discusb58997 
 tophambeauclerc35265 
 gascoyne35062 
 mickheaton32739 
 whammydiver27156 
 libteen21816 
 ramski13426 
 more...  
  Crossroads II 
 gascoyne407365 
 matt1200 
 more...  
  Jet Set Willy 
 more...  
  Blagger 
 more...  
  The Brick Maze 
 more...  
  ASCII Castle 
 gascoyne1070 
 more...  
  JSW Endurance 
 more...  
Games developed by g2 Ltd Powered by PHP-Fusion version 6 © 2003-2005